Now, are we talking actual heel turn, or a Joey Styles-esque heel turn where he heels on a portion of the fans, but endears himself to another? The reason I ask is that a heel turn where he does the non-hardcore Mick Foley a la Tommy Dreamer would be a quick and easy way to go heel. But that wouldn't work within the context of the ECW revival, as well as sabotaging Edge's status as the best heel on Raw. An alliance with Edge would also achieve a quick heel turn, but wouldn't work well if Foley is supposed to be a linchpin in the new ECW. I guess I should just wait and see what they do.
I think we're going to see something that resembles the ECW heel Foley, although obviously I don't think he's going to recreate that angle. If that's the direction, I don't think it's that hard to turn him heel in the match. You have him go 10-15 minutes in a hardcore match, and just as they set up some crazy deal with a flaming table or something, Foley just walks off and says it isn't worth putting his body on the line for the fans and they end the show. That would get heat.
The reason Foley works as a heel is because, honestly, he's pretty much a heel to me already and I'm sure I'm not the only one that has turned on him to some degree. I resent that he put a paycheck over the good of the business by going to WWE rather than TNA which could have used him much more. It's not like he's in the poor house. I resent that he keeps trying to babyface himself publicly about all the things wrong with WWE, but never really puts anything on the line and just sticks behind a company that is awful on so many levels for financial reasons. I resent that he keeps making these comebacks when he once said he wouldn't be like that, and he can't even be bothered to get in shape for them. Obviously I'm overstating these issues to a degree to get across my point, because I have always liked Foley a lot, but there are a lot of legitimate gripes fans have with Foley, and Foley can play off of that as a heel.
What obligation does Foley have to a second-rate promotion like TNA? All the great Hall of Fame wrestlers don't owe the business anything: They're in the Hall of Fame becuase they gave to the business and left it stronger because of their careers. It's one thing if a legend is under contract and behaves unprofessionally and refuses to job repeatedly. It's entirely different to expect Foley, or anyone else, to help TNA, which has done nothing for him, and not even be properly compensated for it. If Foley owes anything to anyone in the business, it's the WWE who took a career midcarder and gave hime his long overdue push to the main event. Foley deserves all he earned, but Vince and company gave him the opportunity to make millions. Signing with TNA, particularly for less money, would have shown little fealty or class.
Ah, Phil. You made the first part of one of my favorite points for me. Yes, superficially Foley's loyalty would be to WWE for making him. But it wasn't ultimately WWE that made him. It was the business that made him. And wrestlers, even the best, do owe what they can give to help the industry that made them.
Foley was a great wrestler. He could have really good matches and could talk really well. But he didn't get real opportunities in the States for the most part because of closed minded bookers. At the time, WWF represented the promotion that gave him the opportunity to shine. And from there he made himself.
Yet now, WWE plays the exact opposite role, by limiting opportunity to only a small group and producing an awful product that is destroying the business in this country to massage the egos of a few.
Foley's greater loyalty should be to professional wrestling, and WWE is hurting professional wrestling as a whole just like it was helping it back when it gave Foley his opportunity.
Foley joining TNA would help the health of the industry, and make it more likely that future wrestlers would get opportunities on the national stage based on talent rather than look. By helping WWE instead, he is hurting future opportunities for people exactly like him, and effectively combating the sort of meritocracy that allowed him to become a legend.
TNA didn't offer him nothing, either. They offered him a good contract, and I've heard from people close to TNA that feel he strung them along for leverage and was never going to join them. I still am sympathetic to the idea that he should have the right to do what's best for him and who am I to judge. But at the point he tries to babyface himself by negotiating with TNA, or publicly on the website talking about what WWE has done wrong, or presenting himself as a guy that has strong moral values and professionalism, it seems to me he should also be well aware that he combats those stated ideals when he prostitutes his name for what has become a crappy promotion and that badly needs competition to revitalize itself and the industry.
I recognize I'm overstating the point. I just want to place it in the strongest possible terms, in part to frame why I think a heel turn would work well if it pushes the right buttons.
Wait did I miss something? Can you tell me whats going on? What do you mean Foley turning heal? When is this and why? I have no clue whats going on. Tell me please.
Todd, I don't agree that the nebulous "business" made him. The business as a whole failed to recognize his talent for years. Even if I concede that point, my greater point is that Foley has earned the right to end his career on his own terms and conditions. I certainly can see why wrestling for a dead-end promotion (even with his help, I still see TNA as fighting a battle it cannot win) wouldn't be on his agenda. I do agree with your points regarding his web columns and coming back after he said he wouldn't. Does WWE hire based on talent rather than look? If only there were a way to look at that objectively. Wait, there is, see my latest column on www.thehistoryofwwe.com Hey, it wouldn't be a Foley thread without a cheap plug.
Todd, I'm going to have to side with Phil on this one.. Very nebulous to credit the "business" for what Foley did in his big money run. Last I look, WWF/E was signing those big cheques, and like what it has become or not, Foley still has some loyalty to the WWE brand on that point. Sure the wrestling fans made him an icon, Foley is Good, but without the WWE vehicle Foley would just be another underachiever. I'm sure TNA would've been a great place for the altruistic Foley to go and put guys over and attract attention to the brand for the sake of the greater good of the wrestling business, but certainly I don't think any less of Foley for not going there and staying loyal to the WWE. TNA has never made Foley any money so why should Foley feel compelled to make them money? WWE has paid the money and put Foley in a position where he doesn't NEED to wrestle or work any job, any day, for the rest of his life.
7 Comments:
Now, are we talking actual heel turn, or a Joey Styles-esque heel turn where he heels on a portion of the fans, but endears himself to another?
The reason I ask is that a heel turn where he does the non-hardcore Mick Foley a la Tommy Dreamer would be a quick and easy way to go heel. But that wouldn't work within the context of the ECW revival, as well as sabotaging Edge's status as the best heel on Raw.
An alliance with Edge would also achieve a quick heel turn, but wouldn't work well if Foley is supposed to be a linchpin in the new ECW.
I guess I should just wait and see what they do.
I think we're going to see something that resembles the ECW heel Foley, although obviously I don't think he's going to recreate that angle. If that's the direction, I don't think it's that hard to turn him heel in the match. You have him go 10-15 minutes in a hardcore match, and just as they set up some crazy deal with a flaming table or something, Foley just walks off and says it isn't worth putting his body on the line for the fans and they end the show. That would get heat.
The reason Foley works as a heel is because, honestly, he's pretty much a heel to me already and I'm sure I'm not the only one that has turned on him to some degree. I resent that he put a paycheck over the good of the business by going to WWE rather than TNA which could have used him much more. It's not like he's in the poor house. I resent that he keeps trying to babyface himself publicly about all the things wrong with WWE, but never really puts anything on the line and just sticks behind a company that is awful on so many levels for financial reasons. I resent that he keeps making these comebacks when he once said he wouldn't be like that, and he can't even be bothered to get in shape for them. Obviously I'm overstating these issues to a degree to get across my point, because I have always liked Foley a lot, but there are a lot of legitimate gripes fans have with Foley, and Foley can play off of that as a heel.
What obligation does Foley have to a second-rate promotion like TNA? All the great Hall of Fame wrestlers don't owe the business anything: They're in the Hall of Fame becuase they gave to the business and left it stronger because of their careers. It's one thing if a legend is under contract and behaves unprofessionally and refuses to job repeatedly. It's entirely different to expect Foley, or anyone else, to help TNA, which has done nothing for him, and not even be properly compensated for it.
If Foley owes anything to anyone in the business, it's the WWE who took a career midcarder and gave hime his long overdue push to the main event. Foley deserves all he earned, but Vince and company gave him the opportunity to make millions. Signing with TNA, particularly for less money, would have shown little fealty or class.
Ah, Phil. You made the first part of one of my favorite points for me. Yes, superficially Foley's loyalty would be to WWE for making him. But it wasn't ultimately WWE that made him. It was the business that made him. And wrestlers, even the best, do owe what they can give to help the industry that made them.
Foley was a great wrestler. He could have really good matches and could talk really well. But he didn't get real opportunities in the States for the most part because of closed minded bookers. At the time, WWF represented the promotion that gave him the opportunity to shine. And from there he made himself.
Yet now, WWE plays the exact opposite role, by limiting opportunity to only a small group and producing an awful product that is destroying the business in this country to massage the egos of a few.
Foley's greater loyalty should be to professional wrestling, and WWE is hurting professional wrestling as a whole just like it was helping it back when it gave Foley his opportunity.
Foley joining TNA would help the health of the industry, and make it more likely that future wrestlers would get opportunities on the national stage based on talent rather than look. By helping WWE instead, he is hurting future opportunities for people exactly like him, and effectively combating the sort of meritocracy that allowed him to become a legend.
TNA didn't offer him nothing, either. They offered him a good contract, and I've heard from people close to TNA that feel he strung them along for leverage and was never going to join them. I still am sympathetic to the idea that he should have the right to do what's best for him and who am I to judge. But at the point he tries to babyface himself by negotiating with TNA, or publicly on the website talking about what WWE has done wrong, or presenting himself as a guy that has strong moral values and professionalism, it seems to me he should also be well aware that he combats those stated ideals when he prostitutes his name for what has become a crappy promotion and that badly needs competition to revitalize itself and the industry.
I recognize I'm overstating the point. I just want to place it in the strongest possible terms, in part to frame why I think a heel turn would work well if it pushes the right buttons.
Wait did I miss something? Can you tell me whats going on? What do you mean Foley turning heal? When is this and why? I have no clue whats going on. Tell me please.
Todd, I don't agree that the nebulous "business" made him. The business as a whole failed to recognize his talent for years. Even if I concede that point, my greater point is that Foley has earned the right to end his career on his own terms and conditions. I certainly can see why wrestling for a dead-end promotion (even with his help, I still see TNA as fighting a battle it cannot win) wouldn't be on his agenda. I do agree with your points regarding his web columns and coming back after he said he wouldn't. Does WWE hire based on talent rather than look? If only there were a way to look at that objectively. Wait, there is, see my latest column on www.thehistoryofwwe.com
Hey, it wouldn't be a Foley thread without a cheap plug.
Todd, I'm going to have to side with Phil on this one.. Very nebulous to credit the "business" for what Foley did in his big money run. Last I look, WWF/E was signing those big cheques, and like what it has become or not, Foley still has some loyalty to the WWE brand on that point. Sure the wrestling fans made him an icon, Foley is Good, but without the WWE vehicle Foley would just be another underachiever.
I'm sure TNA would've been a great place for the altruistic Foley to go and put guys over and attract attention to the brand for the sake of the greater good of the wrestling business, but certainly I don't think any less of Foley for not going there and staying loyal to the WWE. TNA has never made Foley any money so why should Foley feel compelled to make them money? WWE has paid the money and put Foley in a position where he doesn't NEED to wrestle or work any job, any day, for the rest of his life.
Post a Comment
<< Home