Sunday, October 28, 2007


The New England Patriots are the most classless sports team I can ever recall.

Bill Belicheck is a miserable, miserable human being.


Anonymous Phil said...

The last drive may have been a bit much, but it's not the Patriots' fault that the Redskins absolutely sucked today. Why not blame the Redskins for not putting out an honest effort in that situation?

And what do you want the Pats to do? Kneel on the ball in the third quarter? Please.

3:50 PM  
Blogger Todd Martin said...

Oh yeah, go ahead and defend a team that goes for it on 4th down in the 4th quarter up 38-0. That's a hell of a position there. Calling for passes down the field rather than running the ball when the game's outcome is already decided. How can anyone defend this nonsense?

4:01 PM  
Anonymous Phil said...

I posted before the fourth down.

On the whole, a run is roughly as successful as a pass, so I don't see your argument there. If a pass was such a more beneficial play than a run then teams would pass like 75% of the time. So it's not a running up the score type play. When the Redskins pounded the Niners 52-17 two years ago, were you as outraged?

I've been posting here for a long time, and that's the first time I've grown upset with you, Todd. It's certainly OK to disagree but you're being disrespectful, arrogant and rude to myself and the others who disagree with you on this one.

4:16 PM  
Anonymous Sonny said...

Hey Todd, maybe Belicheck read your comments last week....Ive been a Pats fan my whole life and I know the spygate stuff really hit a nerve with Belicheck and his core group (brady, vrabel, bruschi, etc.) this is just an "eff you" to the its always fun being a heel!!! hate us all you want

4:20 PM  
Blogger Todd Martin said...

1) You couldn't have possibly posted before the 4th down, seeing as how that was what inspired my initial post.

2) There's a difference between dink and dunks and 20-30 yard passes.

3) The Patriots are the ones acting like disrespectful, arrogant, rude fools and I'm not in the mood to pay lip service to the notion they're not.

4:35 PM  
Anonymous Phil said...

1) If you're talking about the fourth down from the 45 or so, than that was after my post for sure. You're thinking of another fourth down. In that case, you either go for a TD or FG: either way, you're "running up the score."

2) Same idea. 20-30 yard passes are not on the whole more likely to lead to points as runs. Otherwise, teams would run them all the time. And there was one of those plays, maybe two in the last twenty minutes.

4:40 PM  
Blogger Todd Martin said...

I was talking about the fourth down from the 10 when they could have just kicked the field goal. Yes, it's still 3 points. But you're not pushing for even more points when the defense has stopped you on 3rd down. Any team with an ounce of class would have just kicked the field goal.

Your logic is flawed on run/pass. Yes, teams need to have a balance between run and pass, and just passing all the time doesn't run up the score. But that's in an even game. When the game is a blow out, you'll score more by mixing up runs and passes to keep the defense guessing. On the other hand, if you just run the ball and run out the clock, the other team will know it's coming and you won't score another unnecessary 21 points. This has happened a million times in a million football games. You're ahead big, you just run the ball.

4:52 PM  
Anonymous Dave S. said...

I totally agree with you about the Patriots, Todd. Going for it on 4th and 1 from the Redskins' 7 with 11 minutes left in the game when you're up 38-0 was ridiculous (as was the subsequent TD pass that was done purely to pad Brady's stats). I have honestly never seen an NFL team blatantly run up the score the way the Pats did today. Though I generally don't root for either side when the Colts play the Patriots, I will definitely be cheering for the Colts next week, and I think all non-biased Boston sports fans will be too.

11:09 PM  
Anonymous Dave S. said...

Uh, I obviously meant to say non-Boston-biased sports fans. You know what I meant.

11:10 PM  
Blogger Todd Martin said...

Phil, I meant no offense in my original response to you. I was just expressing my point as strongly as possible. Sorry if I offended.

The thing about Boston sports fans is I would think they would be resistant to this type of garbage. They've disliked the Yankees for decades, in large part because the Yankees have played the role of big market bullies who used their resources to overwhelm the opposition. The Red Sox always built themselves in a different credo, and as an Orioles fan I always thought more highly of the Red Sox than the Yankees. But now Boston fans have had so much success, and I see them defending their team acting much worse than the Yankees or other Boston rivals ever had.

On Pats/Colts, and the notion of the Pats as heels, this has been a hell of a double turn. As I think I mentioned previously, I always preferred the Pats to the Colts, but I've done a complete 180. I really hope the Colts take them down next week.

3:29 AM  
Anonymous Floppo said...

Maybe they should just ask the other team what they feel is "right" then. Or "fair". Is that it? These guys are friggin professionals. Take this cry-baby, no one should win by too much little league crap somewhere else. Are they supposed to run into a 9 man front just because they "have to"? Or do they continue to do what they feel puts them in the best spot to win? I said it last week with the Phins and I'll say it again: each of these teams draws from the same pool of players and the Pats are better than the Skins. These guys bust their asses all week for a chance to play on Sunday, and now you're telling them to take it easy? Please. It's a ludicrous notion to even address. And so what about the 4th down, are they supposed to kick a field goal and put points on the board regardless? As Rodney Harrison said after the game: "Defensive players are paid a lot of money to play 60 minutes". If the Skins don't have the wherewithal to win, or better yet stay competitive then blame their players, front office, coach, whoever. But just stop with this "The Pats are running it up" thing. And yeah I think Spygate has to do with this, b/c it's nimrods like you and Wade Phillips who started to question their championships, and the means by which they won them. It's one thing to be inundated with the BS that happens in little league (they dont keep score, yet EVERY kid knows the score, and they tell them it's a frickin tie?!?!) and even in high school sports, but these guys are paid to play football. They train year round to play 16 games. They game plan for 6 days to play one game, and you want them to stop putting themselves in position to win b/c of the score? That's just foolish. Stop your crying. Boo hoo

7:06 AM  
Anonymous Dan said...

here you go Todd.. pleas stop whining... It's the f'n NFL!! These are grown ass man.. The Pats have no choice if they let up during the game they risk injury and dishonor the other team yet if they play hard like they have been all people can do is take the same pot shots at them each week.. f'n dooshes.. I'll just chill here in Boston have a beer and enjoy the world series parade as well as a historic Pats' season and you can continue being jealous and bitter.. What?

Props to that dude Floppo..

Coach Joe Gibbs
(on the game)
"From our standpoint, the Redskins standpoint, we just couldn’t get anything going out there today. I think that we have to start off by giving the Patriots all the credit, it’s a real, real good football team. Looking across there, I don’t know of a weakness that they have. ..."
(On if he thought that Patriots were running up the score)
"No. I have no problem with anything that they did. Nothing, no problems from me."
(On communication problems on the field or with the headsets)
"There were issues. It’s a problem across the league. I don’t want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We’ll just continue to the let the league know what happened to us today and we’ll just have to see how they deal with it."
(On what he said to Coach Belichick after the game)
"I didn’t say anything. We just shook. It was a heck of a job."
DL Philip Daniels
(on if he felt the Patriots ran up the score)
"That's running up the score, there isn't any other way to look at that. C'mon, man, you're going for it on fourth down and you're up by 38 points. You're throwing the ball late in the game. Most teams just run the clock out to get the win. They don't think like that, but I guess it's our job to stop them. You can't do anything about it, just go out and play defense and try to stop them."
QB Jason Campbell
(on if he felt the Patriots were running up the score)
"I don’t know how to answer that one. They were going for it on fourth downs, but like I said, that’s an NFL team and we have to stop it. We’re all in the NFL and we’re all here to make plays. One thing you have to remember about this level is no one is going to give you anything. Anything you get, you have to earn it. One thing I’d say is that we’d probably have a little chip on our shoulder. We’ve just got to get back and do what we need to do to win games."
(on if the Patriots' approach bothered him)
"You know, when we’re in those situations we tend to back off a little bit because that’s just what we do. Their motto might be different. They might have a different approach in the way they do it, but we’ve just got to put this one behind us and move on. It’s not a pretty feeling when they’re moving up and down the field and scoring that way and we’re not completing third downs or not getting into a groove to make plays offensively. It’s kind of a frustrating day all around."

8:03 AM  
Anonymous Buddy Ryan said...

Whats wrong with running up the score? I did it against Dallas?

8:29 AM  
Blogger Todd Martin said...

Perfect illustration in the last 2 posts why I've lost a ton of respect for Boston fans.

I never criticized the Patriots for spygate. I thought that wasn't that big of a deal, and frankly, I don't think a lot of people did. It was a media talking point and the Patriots used it as a fake motivational tool.

The card about the other team not being able to stop them is such a lame point. It's a bully's logic. "If you can't stop the beating you're getting, it's your own fault."

As far as the rhetorical questions about what the Patriots should have done, ala Belichick's press conferences, yes, they should have let up. It's been done thousands of times in professional football games. It isn't some foreign notion, nor is it contradictory to any notion of fair play or working hard.

And the "putting themselves in a position to win" is absolute bullshit. Complete empty words. When you have won the game, you no longer need to put yourself in a position to do so.

If the Patriots let up they risk injury?! Huh?! You're saying putting in backups and running is less risky than having Tom Brady drop back to pass?!

I wasn't jealous or bitter of the Red Sox first World Series win. I was happy for them and their fans. I wasn't jealous or bitter of the Patriots Super Bowl wins. I thought they were a classy organization. But I think they're acting like asses this year, and I think fans like you two are acting like asses this year, and I'm certainly not going to be happy for them in the future.

If you asked Joe Gibbs in private what he thought about that debacle, I think he'd have a very different answer than he gave for the media.

12:26 PM  
Anonymous Dave S. said...

It is amazing to me that Boston fans are defending their classless football team. The Colts (who I have NEVER rooted for, by the way) are far better than most other teams, but they never try to run up the score when the game has already been decided. They run the ball, and then when the other team has exhausted their timeouts, Manning takes a knee to end the game. This is what NFL teams do; they don't try to embarass the other team and the other head coach. And yet the Patriots have been running up the score in the 4th quarter every game so far this year, and it shows a tremendous lack of sportsmanship. Is it against the rules? Of course not. But if my favorite team (the Giants) was pulling shit like that, I would criticize it; I wouldn't blindly defend it like a sheep.

1:36 PM  
Anonymous Floppo said...

Listening to Tedy Bruschi (who by all accounts exudes "class" in the NFL) talk about this shit was great. he said: "It's the defense's job to stop the offense. It's the offense's job to score points." That's not coach's speak, that's the mentality they have. He later went on to say: "If we're losing by a lot of points and I can't get the defense off the field, the other team should score. I don't want anyone to feel bad for me and throw a pity party b/c they're beating us." These are words from a classy individual. The Pats players and coaches see every minute of every game as an opportunity to get better. Perhaps if other teams took that same mentality (I'm not saying no other teams do by the way), then this wouldn't be an issue. My allegiance to the team has nothing to do with this. My severe hatred of the cry-baby BS you spit is the reason for my retort. If we're talking about two high school teams, I'd agree. These guys are paid to play 60 minutes. The bully argument is humorous. Claiming that a pro team is "bullying" another pro team is laughable, and merely shows your true colors. You were definitely the guy getting wedgies and swirlies, and felt bad for yourself. So go on hating, and go get ya f'n shine box.

8:00 AM  
Anonymous Joe Gibbs said...

Hey Todd, you got to understand if I had the lead against the Patriots and up by 21 I would have played it conservative and ran the ball. Then I would see the game slip away and watch the Patriots come back and see them win the game.

12:29 PM  
Blogger Todd Martin said...

Hey Joe, thanks for posting. Quick question for you. What if you were up by 38 in the 4th quarter at home and the other team hadn't moved the ball against you all game?

12:52 PM  
Anonymous Joe Gibbs said...

Well Todd that is an interesting question. If I was up 38, hmm it's been years since I my team been up that many points, but if I could remember I would take all my starters out and run the ball and of course play conservative, but I wouldn't try to score any more points I would just take time off the clock. I would kneel the ball down instead of scoring.

7:22 AM  
Anonymous Sonny said...

Hey Todd, since youre a lawyer or soon to be, were you taught in any of your classes or have you seen any of your colleagues let up on a witness? Arent you taught to drive the point home?

9:58 AM  
Blogger Todd Martin said...

I know that was a joke, but actually they teach you to do the exact opposite.

When you've got a hostile witness, you're taught to ask closed questions. That means the witness can only say yes or no to answer the question. That way, you can string together a series of questions that tells the jury what you want them to know about the weaknesses of the witness. Now, there's a tendency to want to "not let the witness off the hook" as you say. You want to really drive home the point. But they teach you not to do that, because if you keep pressing eventually the witness may come up with a really bad answer for you, that hurts your whole line of questioning. You're better off getting what you need, and saving the real jewels for closing argument.

3:07 PM  
Anonymous mean dean said...

Y'know, whether it was "right" or "wrong," there's been an awful lot of hyperbole thrown about between the original post and all these comments. I'm especially fond of Belichick being a "miserable, miserable human being."

Let's not blow this up to be something more than it was: one team being clearly superior to the other, and intentionally and unnecessarily continuing to score late in the game.

I always get irritated when I find myself getting worked up over something like players using steroids, considering it's freakin' sports we're talking about, so I find all the frenzy over Belichick and the Patriots this season to be especially asinine.

I don't think all the extra scoring New England has been doing is needed, there's no reason why they couldn't just run up the gut a few times if they have a lead, and if they march down the field doing so then so be it. Really, though, this is a lot of wasted breath (or typing). Now that the sideline taping scandal has passed, there's really not a lot to really be up in arms about. Get back to me when they find out Belichick is spiking opposing teams' Gatorade or something (or if anything comes from the helmet radio accusations).

There are far more interesting and important things in sports (which is already awfully frivolous) to discuss and banter over than a professional football team that routinely runs up the score.

8:22 PM  
Blogger Corey said...

Well Belichick was a massive dickhead long before spygate and this season began.

6:59 AM  

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