Tuesday, June 30, 2009

WWE Raw Report

Date: 06/29/09 from San Jose, CA.

The Big News: WWE has decided that the same old mix of main event talent just isn’t cutting it any more. They’re getting behind someone new, someone fresh, someone exciting, someone who can really carry the company, Mark Henry! Yes, seriously.

Show Analysis:

Vince McMahon came out to start the show and said he wouldn’t be doing the commercial free gimmick or ticket refund gimmick. He added that Donald Trump before selling Raw executed a 15 person trade. It’s so insulting to the audience’s intelligence that just a couple months ago they were hard selling how big the draft was and how it would see these lasting changes, and already they’re mixing the brands consistently and swapping around even more talent.

I don’t care if they want to keep the brands separate, or if they want to just have one talent roster. Either way’s fine with me. But I find it unbelievably irritating that they change their mind on this every few weeks, and worse that they think their audience is so brain dead that it doesn’t notice.

On the plus side, I love how the trade makes Tiffany look like the most incompetent GM ever. She traded seven performers, including five of her six or seven best acts, for the Bella Twins, Goldust, Shelton Benjamin and William Regal. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen such a lopsided trade where Kwame Brown wasn’t involved. I understand that Goldust and Brie Bella told Tiffany that they’ll never disappoint her.

Vince McMahon also mentioned Trump’s idea of a guest host each week, and said that he would be instituting that. It wasn’t really explained why, but Vince just liking the idea makes more sense than him somehow being forced to follow what Trump had planned. In any event, I like the idea. It’s a fun way to bring in different people and make shows feel unique.

This week’s guest host was Batista. Batista announced a four man tournament for a title shot at Night of Champions, with the first round matches being Miz (Jerry Lawler laughed when his name was announced) vs. John Cena and MVP vs. HHH. Randy Orton and Legacy came out, and Orton suggested he would come down and beat Batista up. Batista said that if he did, he would be fired because Batista had unlimited power. Batista announced Randy Orton in a gauntlet match against three of the wrestlers traded to Raw. Batista’s delivery here wasn’t very good.

Triple H beat MVP in about five minutes with the pedigree. MVP went after the leg, applied a figure four, and hit balling. Triple H avoided the running yakuza kick but MVP then avoided a pedigree attempt. MVP hit the running yakuza kick for two, but his playmaker attempt was reversed into the pedigree for the pin. They booked MVP to look fine here, but given how unbelievably stale the main event picture is it’s about time people like Triple H actually started to put over people like MVP.

Chris Jericho and Edge came out for a tag title match. Those titles feel so much more important on those two. Jericho said that despite his vow to never appear on Raw again ten shows ago that he finds himself on Raw again by virtue of his talent and ability. Umm, Chris, you wrestled on Raw last week and the week before as well. Edge said that they are together because he suggested they join in a united front to accomplish their goals.

Edge and Jericho beat the Colons. This was a very fun little match. The heels worked over Primo, who eventually got the tag to Carlito. Carlito came in with punches and a swinging neck breaker on Jericho. Jericho cut him off with an elbow but missed the lionsault. Carlito used a quebrada on the standing Jericho for two. Carlito followed with a springboard crossbody for two, but Jericho then tagged Edge.

Edge went for the spear but Primo pulled Carlito out of the way. Carlito hit the back stabber on Edge but Jericho made the save. Primo took out Jericho with a tope, but as Carlito went for a springboard a recovered Jericho pulled down the middle rope. Edge then hit the spear for the pin. Afterwards, Carlito and Primo argued for quite a while, teasing a split.

John Cena beat Miz. Miz got most of the offense in the match. He used punches and stomps. Cena came back with a back drop and vertical suplex. An angry Miz then took over with a knee lift, neck breaker, swinging neck breaker, lariat, mount with punches, electric chair and sleeper. Cena got out of that and then just made the straight comeback. He hit shoulder blocks, the Cena slam, the five knuckle, the top rope rocker dropper and applied the STF for the submission.

I’m sorry, but given WWE has elevated two or three guys in the last five years, losing clean in a competitive match does not help a young wrestler. It hurts him. Fans are conditioned to believe that nobody new will be given a chance to succeed at the top level, and you have to move heaven and earth to rebut that presumption.

WWE main events are staler right now than they have been at any point in the company’s 45 plus year history, and they desperately need new main eventers. If they think this is the way to do it, they’re morons. But more likely, I think the key people are in fact a lot smarter than that and are only interested in the *appearance* of giving new talent a chance. They have got down the art of giving young guys not enough to get over but just enough that they can be blamed for not getting themselves over.

Mickie James won a fatal four way match over Rosa Mendes, Beth Phoenix and Kelly Kelly to earn a women’s title shot at Maryse. They worked hard and had some cool ideas laid out, but it was on the sloppy side. They did a spot where Mickie got a dragon sleeper on Beth, Rosa got a headlock on Mickie and Kelly got a sleeper on Rosa. They did a series of rollups with each woman coming in on the last. Beth hit the glam slam on Kelly but Mickie broke up the pin. Mickie dropkicked Beth off the apron, and Beth bounced off the steps and took a hard bump on the floor. In the ring Mickie hit the implant DDT on Rosa for the pin.

Kofi Kingston and Big Show battled to a double count out. Kofi hit a top rope dropkick and high double leg drop. Show did the power out of the pin spot. Kofi dove onto Show, but Show threw him to the outside. Show pressed Kofi over his head on the floor, but Kofi sent Show into the post and they were both counted out. They announced Ted DiBiase Sr. will be next week’s guest host.

The gauntlet started with Randy Orton beating Evan Bourne. Yes, this was not the night for young talent. Bourne looked really short next to Orton. Bourne went for a bunch of high flying moves. He hit a standing moonsault, baseball slide, and modified Thesz press off the top. He went for the shooting star press but Orton got up, crotched him and hit the RKO off the ropes for the pin. Again, they booked Bourne to look strong, but again, the young guy jobbed clean and in his first appearance on Raw to boot.

Jack Swagger was scheduled to be Orton’s next opponent. However, when the referee called for the bell Swagger stepped outside the ring and was counted out. He said that he likes and respects Orton and that he wanted to leave a lasting impression. He shook hands with Orton and left. That’s not exactly the way I would book Swagger’s first Raw appearance, but it’s certainly better than what they did with Bourne.

Mark Henry was the final opponent, and he pinned Orton clean in a minute or so. Yes, you read that right. Henry teased getting counted out, but then came in for Orton. This was an apparent face turn, and he was cheered. He hit a head butt and the world’s strongest slam for the pin.

Isn’t it funny how they have a bunch of younger, fresher talents with serious upside, and they’re the ones doing clean jobs to the stars, then they decide to have one of the stars lose to someone different, and it’s a guy who has been with the company for 13 years and has no upside as a main event talent? It’s really interesting how that works.

Final Thoughts:

As far as entertainment goes, this was one of the best episodes of Raw in a while. There was good wrestling, some surprises and good overarching issues. But this show was also as emblematic as any you’re going to find of WWE’s problem elevating new talent.

It certainly raises questions about the true motives of WWE’s creative team when young guys with upside are doing key jobs left and right and then they bring in Mark Henry of all people to basically squash the champion in a minute’s time. Are they booking for the benefit of the company or are they booking to ensure that the same chosen few continue to headline for years to come regardless of how stale and played out they may be?


Anonymous Hoss said...

What in the blue hell is the matter with you? You make it seem like WWEs sole purpose is to "bury" young talent. That is a load of crap. What is it that you expect? "Oh heres a guy who joined WWE about a year ago lets push him to the moon and have him go over all our top guys!"...or.."Oh this kid was just taken out of FCW a few months ago lets have him beat Cena tonight to make a new star!" Um no. Thats not the way the wrestling business works and thats not the way to create new stars. They tried garbage in WCW in 2000 and it didnt work at all. Not one bit.

Do you understand the concept of wrestlers paying there dues?

Why in the HELL do you expect Evan Bourne who is a cruiserweight high flyer and has been in WWE for maybe a year to defeat the current WWE Champion Randy Orton?!?! Are you kidding me?

And that was not his first appearance on Raw. Evan has been on Raw several times before. He wrestled Mysterio on Raw not that long ago, before the draft.

What is your thought process when it comes to young wrestlers in WWE? There young so lets push them and get all the established stars out of the way because there "stale" Is that it?

If so that is BS! Those "stale" established stars are the ones people are paying to see and the ones selling merchandise.

In one breath your saying "Evan Bourne looks really short next to Randy Orton" and then you complain that he jobbed clean to the WWE Champion, LOL gimmie a break. Yeah he looks short next to Orton. Randy is 6-5 240 and looks like hes chizzled out of stone, and Evan is like 5-7 150 and looks like he should be taking orders at a Burger King window.

Evan is talented, everyone knows that and Randy made him look good but you should not have expected any other result other then the champ beating him tonight.

You say "given how unbelievably stale the main event picture is it’s about time people like Triple H actually started to put over people like MVP"

....Really Todd?..Really?

Why? Why should a seasoned veteran like HHH and one of the top guys in the company who has been in the business with some of the biggest names all of a sudden put over MVP? What the hell is so special about MVP that HHH should put him over. There was a PPV last night The Bash. You know where MVP was? He was taking the fat girl from The View to the BET Awards. Yeah HHH is really gonna put that dude over. Matter of fact MVP has been taking that fat girl all over the place, to the prom, media appearances, showing up on the view. What has MVP done so special lately? Feud with a 1 arm Matt Hardy? Feud with William Regal? Is MVP even Main Event worthy? Or is it just because hes young that HHH should put him over? Come on.

MVP is a fine mid carder. He is not ready to be in Main Events and no one would buy into it if he was forced there.

Watch Smackdown. Watch CM Punk as the World Champion and John Morrison becoming a star. Those are guys who paid there dues and deserve to be pushed. Thats how the business works, and its not just a matter of how long a wrestler has paid there dues and how long they been in the business its about how good they currently are and how people take to them.

Some times I think you watch Raw and only blog about Raw is so that you can complain about it and attempt to get a chuckle out of Meltzer.

2:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All I had to ask myself after watching the Gauntlet – which I sat up to watch because it sounded exciting – was would they have treated Triple H like that? Of course not. Triple H barely sold his injury to MVP and fairly easily beat the former US Champ with little effort. The entire commentary was centered around how heroic Trips was and how awesome he was to dig deep and win. Meanwhile, Cena – who whooped Miz last night – this time a day later was on the receiving end of most of the punishment. The announcers said over and over how shocked they were at Miz’ ability. Obviously Trips couldn’t do this for MVP (who is a fellow “face”, but Trips is a “Super Face”). Then you have the 3 on 1 Gauntlet. (By the way, why can’t every GM just tell Legacy if they interfere they’re fired?) Orton deserved an Oscar for this one. All show he staggered around like he had a concussion and his body was wracked with pain. Trips wore a leg wrap. When Evan came out, I was excited until I saw them together. I agree with Hoss, Orton even ‘injured’ looked like he could kill him. They still gave Bourne some chance to shine but no other ending would have worked. Swagger comes out next and I’m stoked. Swagger showed a quick dominance before he stepped out of the ring. It was an interesting twist. I didn’t like it and I can’t imagine his ‘character’ giving up an opportunity like facing the Champion because he respected him. Pretty lame. But they made sure he shoved Orton down before he stepped out for the countout. And then Mark Henry – who has lost all sorts of matches on ECW from what I remember reading. He probably lost to Finlay and Hornswoggle! I was as shocked as Todd when they made Henry the ‘face’ and conquering hero. Would Trips have begged for mercy? Would Trips have been squashed in a minute? I’ve never seen anyone with as much talent as Orton treated with so little respect. And yet, he pulls it all off with skill. So who is the future of RAW? I thought it was Orton. I guess it’s Henry!

4:12 AM  
Blogger brian said...

"Would Trips have begged for mercy? Would Trips have been squashed in a minute?"

Only against the Warrior!

4:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And how many years ago was that? I do believe it was quite a bit before he became Mr. Stephanie and ruled the WWE world with his every whim and his self-serving decisions.

5:43 AM  
Anonymous mike said...

I loved Lawler saying twice that next week's main event of Cena vs HHH was as big a Raw main event as they have ever had. Um, didn't HHH fight Orton in a Last Man Standing Match just last week?

8:16 AM  
Blogger Todd Martin said...

Hoss, the goal of pro wrestling is to make money. It's a lot easier to make money when you have matches that people care to see. And it's a lot easier to make people care about matches when you haven't seen them 8,000 times before. Paying dues has little to do with the equation. For the good of everyone involved, you just need to create stars. Many of the biggest stars in wrestling history were pushed well before "paying their dues." And most of the WWE's biggest stars were pushed to the moon only shortly after joining the company. That's PRECISELY how the wrestling business works. It was only in the past seven years that WWE adopted the mentality that you have guys lose a bunch of matches early on in their tenure. Their MO for decades was you bring in a new guy, have him win a bunch of matches in impressive fashion, and see how far they can make it. The year WCW collapsed was 1999, and it was the stale matchups in a large part that killed off business. And Nash cutting off the legs from all the fresh talent. On Bourne, I never advocated him beating Orton. But there was nobody putting a gun to anybody's head and saying you need Bourne to face Orton his first night in. Have him face and beat somebody else. This is booking 101 for trying to get over a newcomer with promise, not jobbing him out clean night one. Particular in today's WWE, where fans have been more strongly conditioned to give up on a wrestler like that. My thought process is indeed that you need new stars, so you need to push the freshest guys with the most potential. Again, this is nothing new in wrestling booking. It's so basic. And it creates new stars for HHH, Orton and Cena to face rather than having them wrestle each other over and over and over again. News flash: HHH was not one of the top guys in the company and had not been in with all the biggest names when he got his push in '99. They pushed and pushed and pushed him until it took. Same for Orton. Same for Cena. That's what you do in wrestling. Sometimes it takes a while for people to take these guys seriously, but that's a reason to work really hard on it, not to give it up and job them out.

10:19 AM  
Anonymous hhh said...

Yes I agree with Todd here. They need to bring in some new talent and build them up so I can pedegree them down and get myself the clean win and make myself look superior than anyone else like I usually do. And Of course I will be in the next Wrestlemania Main Event again. Heck I can face Mark Henry as the new savior of Raw and I will pedegree him down too!

1:09 PM  
Blogger AKFooFighter said...

It's almost like WWE "creative" thinks it's TV Land. I like reruns of Three's Company as much as the next guy, but don't want to always watch the same thing over and over again.

PG or not PG, I remember when the shows were, you know, fun to watch. No one seems to have fun with the product any longer - the talent, the in-house audience and the television audience. It's kind of sad.

- Matt in Anchorage

1:53 PM  
Anonymous Bob said...

Todd, the goal from the WWE's perspective is to make money. The goal from the fan's perspective is to be entertained. This is why it drives me crazy when people start complaining that they're giving away PPV matches for free -- why would a viewer be upset by that?

Now, granted, the best way for them to make money is for them to entertain the fans and for them to leave the fans wanting more and willing to pay for it. Ideally this is done in a way that seems natural and not manipulated (although of course it always is manipulated).

Hoss, that brings us to the stale talent on top. A viewer doesn't want stale talent on top. A viewer doesn't care about paying dues. A viewer wants a fun, fresh show.

As for someone needing to be around for years, that's not how it used to be, and those days were a lot more fun, in my opinion. Back then, you've have talent coming in from another territory, and they were often immediately pushed right to the top. It was really exciting to see someone come out of nowhere, have a few quick matches to establish they were the real deal, and then have them battling for the title.

Unfortunately, by killing the territory system, and by their own attitude that nobody compares to them, the WWE can't really do this anymore. So we get all this talent coming in, getting nowhere, and getting "future endeavored" several years later.

If that's more exciting to you, Hoss, than a stream of ready challengers invading the territory, then I'm glad you're enjoying the show. Personally, to me, it's boring.

4:10 PM  
Blogger John said...


Tell me a rematch between Orton and Henry at the next PPV wouldn't have been more exciting than the 3 way that's coming between Cena, Trips and Orton. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but was Orton's pin of Evan Bourne his first CLEAN victory as champion? How sad it that...

7:26 PM  
Anonymous Hoss said...

About 10 million people watch all 4 WWE shows every week, Raw did its highest rating in 7 years last week, the company is making tons of money, things are pretty good.

There will always be people that think its stale or boring or not entertaining or predictable and this and that...whatever. There are 4 different shows to choose from. Raw, ECW, Superstars and Smackdown and they are all different and good in there own way.

Todd, people are paying to see John Cena and HHH and Randy Orton and all the other guys you consider stale. Its just some of the grumpy viewers who dont pay a dime to watch WWE, who sit on there coach and fantasy book and arm chair quarter back the show that are complaining its stale or boring.

You dont create stars over night. People dont by that. Becoming a star has to evolve naturally. The fans have to invest and care about the wrestler.

Will people really remember or care that Evan Bourne lost to the much larger WWE Champion or will they just be amazed the next time he is in the ring flying around like crazy?

Will Evan Bourne ever be a credible Main Event wrestler, or just a decent mid card high flyer?

I select the latter for both those questions.

"News flash: HHH was not one of the top guys in the company and had not been in with all the biggest names when he got his push in '99. They pushed and pushed and pushed him until it took"


It takes time. HHH was wrestling in hog pen matches and feuding with Savio Vega when he first started in WWE. He had to climb the ladder in WWE and prove his worth to the company by competing in great matches and making a name for himself and he was finally able to catch a huge break after his great matches with The Rock and Mankind in 98 and 99.

He evolved naturally and the fans eventually accepted him as a star and main eventer.

Thats what any young talent has to do is prove they are worth it for the company to invest in them. Win, Lose or draw its how they perform in the match and how the people take to them. Its charisma, its mic skills, its in ring ability, its timing, its alot of things, but stars are not created over night and stars cannot be forced on people.

Everyone knew from watching The Rock in 1997/98 he was gonna be a star, same with HHH in 98, or Cena in 03, Batista in 04, Austin in 96.

The only guys I can see that it now are John Morrison and Jack Swagger and possibly Kofi Kingston and Christian.

John Morrsion is naturally evolving into a big time player on Smackdown every week. Watch that show, everybody whos a fan of WWE can tell you Smackdown is the best wrestling show on TV.

10:59 PM  
Blogger KobashivsTaker said...

The real problem in here is that for example, as Todd said, Bourne shouldnt have wrestle orton, WWE thinks you create stars by mixing the new talent with the main eventers, but they have forgoten that a wrestler have to win matches, but they doesnt care for matches results, they just look how the gimmick is modified (look at legacy)...(oh...legacy they should be renamed just Inteferency), they think if they put bourne next to orton, people will think he is a star, but the have problems on the booking side later, because Bourne is not strong, and they cant keep him on that, they have to balance things, first they need to stop make all their lower card talent lose all the time, and for that they should put them againts others low or mid card players that they can have a win over, not against Orton or Cena

10:54 AM  
Blogger KobashivsTaker said...

I dont undestand the Mark Henry thing, he works well in the position hi is in, hi is (for the at least my sole opinion) an awful wrestler, one of the worst workers in wwe, and he and his size should be used as a bridge for rising stars to beait him, and be ready for the next level. face turn? beat Orton? i just dont get it

10:58 AM  
Blogger hobbyfan said...

I traded e-mails with Todd on this Tuesday, but let me share some opinions with the rest of you.

Mark Henry is a face for the duration because 1) Batista is on the DL and 2) reportedly, John Cena is going off to make another movie later this month. They need someone who can match those two in the power department on the face side and not have to give Big Show his seemingly annual face turn. Henry hasn't been a face since 2002 when he was on Smackdown. It makes sense in the short term at the very least.

I agree that Evan Bourne shouldn't have been in there vs. Orton. That was to give Orton at least one relatively easy win in the gauntlet. That entire 3-match block was written by an idiot savant, I'm sure of it. The drama just dissipated in a hurry. But they advertised that "three of Raw's new superstars" would be in the gauntlet, so Bourne's fate was sealed, especially with this being a double taping night.

Miz aimed too high too soon as a single, and the one big mistake that the Uncreative team made was not having him be built up by wrestling in singles against the predictable fodder (i.e. Santino) before he went after Cena. This is what I believe is backward booking. Now, Miz has to start all over again, but with 2 matches under his belt, Uncreative can actually put him in with a Santino or a Jamie Noble and rebuild him.

DiBiase & Rhodes have lost a ton of cred by being associated with Orton. Legacy is as much a vanity vehicle for Orton as Evolution was for Triple H 5 years ago. Orton has siphoned away all the heat from the former tag champs, whose past successes without Orton have been swept under the rug of forgetfulness. Getting killed on a weekly basis by Triple H doesn't help this sitch at all.

6:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Speaking of losing cred and idiot savants, that leads to the topic of Triple H.

If Legacy is losing cred by being associated with Orton, it's only because Orton is losing cred by being associated with Triple H.

Orton is one of the most exciting men on the roster - and Triple H is glomming on to him for the attention. There is nobody else and Trips is a tired, one-trick pony who shoves himself down the fans throats at every turn. Sadly, he's using Orton for his own selfish, continual advancement and in the process, ruining Orton's credibility as a performer.

As for the idiot savant that was referred to as the author of the Gauntle match - that is also Triple H. He's the man backstage who controls everything you see on Raw - and in most particular, the events that the top performers engage in. If anything is sh**ting the bed on Raw, it's because of Triple H.

7:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you are tired of watching stale matches I recommend watching whatver show egotrips is not on. Right now it's Smackdown which as a result is leaps and bounds better than Raw.

8:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gee, do you think Henry will be getting a squash victory over Trips anytime soon? They let Henry humilaite the Champion. Oh that's right... Orton doesn't run Creative - but Trips does.

8:30 PM  
Anonymous hhh said...

Just to let you people know that is not how I would have booked myself in a gauntlet match first of all, if I was in a 3 man Gauntlet, I would have squashed the first two opponents and fought a valiant match in the last match and of course get the win. Pedigreeing everyone since no one can get pass the three count of my pedigree, even Hulk Hogan when he was hulking up in his prime!!

11:17 AM  
Blogger Bobcat said...

While I get the "idiot" part, I don't get the "savant" part.

On another note, one thing Hoss's comments brought up to me is: how come the creative terribleness of Raw--i.e., anything having to do with the nepotistic assassin--hasn't seemed to hurt the ratings? The no-commercials episode got a 4.5. What gives? Is Hoss right--have the awful bookings done nothing to hurt the ratings?

12:53 PM  
Anonymous DW said...

The ratings are a sham. It is an outdated system that does not take into consideration the new technology of the late 20th - and now 21st century - where cable television has taken over from the prior non-cable industry, people can switch channels much easier, tape programs and watch them later, Tivo, to name a few scenarios. Add to that the fact that the system is based on an attempted demographic cross-section of the population and may not really represent anything at all anymore considering the changing nature of this country's population. One could argue further, but that's enough for now to prove the ratings meaningless - except for their value as a system that advertisers bow down to - therefore the numbers mean money, and money talks to the networks. In short, they don't mean quality, and they certainly don't represent any success - or failure, for that matter - of a particular program.

Any success the WWE is having is due to the willingness of the average fan to accept this crap as entertainment. If one fits into that category, it's a sad situation, but apparently, there are lots of them out there.

1:45 PM  
Blogger hobbyfan said...

The poster hiding behind the "anonymous" label and blaming Triple H for Legacy's failure couldn't be more wrong.

While Hunter does have some input in Raw's storylines, especially his own, he can't be blamed for Legacy looking like small-time hoods. Vince doesn't want him looking vulnerable for some reason for any length of time. It goes against all logical storytelling rules, but I think we already know that Vince isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed anymore. Raw head writer Brian Gewirtz is even worse, but that goes without saying, too.

If Legacy were over on Smackdown, they'd be booked much better than they have top to bottom.

8:15 AM  
Anonymous DW said...

On the contrary, I would say that Triple H is responsible for any failure related to the Legacy team. The majority of Legacy's involvement in the ring is related to the endless Orton vs Triple H feud, so Triple H's backstage influence in their story is significant - and therefore any lack of success can be attributed to him to a large degree.

I'd also like to point out one other thing that hobbyfan wrote when he penned this comment:

"The poster hiding behind the "anonymous" label...."

I don't think I'm inferring this, rather I believe hobbyfan's implication is clear, that anybody using the "anonymous" moniker when they post here is "hiding," a negative rather than a positive connotation.

Let's be honest - just about everybody who posts here is anonymous, because we are all using nicknames (which represent anonymity because nobody reading knows their identity), screen names - or at least refraining from using our full names (with the exception of Todd, of course). What's the difference between "DW" (my screen name), hobbyfan or anonymous? Nothing. That being the case, hobbyfan is "hiding" just as much as "anonymous" is.

I don't think there's any place in this forum for those types of personal critical implications - so let's refrain from the judgments as we continue to enjoy this forum.

1:54 PM  

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